Red_Cactus
member
I’m just training as a German teacher and my mentor wrote this on the board.
“I want to be a doctor because I like helping people.”
Am I right in thinking “Leuten” would be correct here, since the object of “helfen” is always a dative one?
Thank you in advance
robocop
senior member
ABBA Stanza
senior member
“I want to be a doctor because I like helping people.”
Am I right in thinking “Leuten” would be correct here, since the object of “helfen” is always a dative one?
Yes, you’re right.
Also, you could consider reformulating the sentence, otherwise you run the risk of “mag” being falsely interpreted to mean “may” instead of “like”:
“I want to be a doctor because I like helping people.”
Red_Cactus
member
What a can of worms I seem to have opened! It’s always good to find these things out though – before I’m teaching them to the next generations!
robocop
senior member
Hutschi
senior member
It is a regional synonym to the standard word “möchte” in this context.
. because I want to help people .
colophonius
member
robocop
senior member
bosom name
senior member
ABBA Stanza
senior member
I’m sorry, Robocop, but I do not agree (but I’m not going to say why, because you didn’t either! ).
In the meantime, if anybody can explain the “mistake” in my previous post, they’re more than welcome to send me a PM.
Red_Cactus
member
I’m sorry, Robocop, but I do not agree (but I’m not going to say why, because you didn’t either! ).
In the meantime, if anybody can explain the “mistake” in my previous post, they’re more than welcome to send me a PM.
Or even better, in this thread since the thread is about this sentence. this is for sharing knowledge – not for competing for who is the best!
Thanks to all that have replied. It’s interesting to note these other “issues” along with my original question about the dative ending.
berndf
presenter
sokol
senior member
I agree with Bernd, “weil ich helfen möchte” would sound more natural in standard language.
However, it is indeed possible in colloquial style (and dialect) to use “mag” here. Austrians might say “I mecht Arzt werden, weil i andre Leit helfen mecht” (and here, Konjunktiv would be the most typical choice), but alternatively I also would say that indicative is idiomatic, that is: “. weil i andre Leit helfen mag”.
But I agree that this (i. e., indicative here in this context) definitely should be avoided in standard language.
ABBA Stanza
senior member
But that’s only one of the two possible meanings isn’t it? As you’ve already hinted at via your interpretation of “ich möchte” as “I would like”, the principal translation of “mögen” in English is “to like, not “to fancy”.
For example, if I say “Ich mag Essen gehen”, then (depending on context) it could indeed mean “I fancy going out to eat [right now]”. But it could equally mean “I like going out to eat [in general]” (i.e., it’s one of my interests). It’s the second meaning I had in mind in my previous posts, and I can’t work out why you and the other natives seem to be ignoring this possibility.
In particular, using “mögen” in a non-modal way using the “es” construction, as in “ich mag es, Essen zu gehen” should effectively rule out the first (“fancy”) alternative. To my mind, when someone comes up with such a sentence, they can only be talking about a general interest.
This is where I get completely confused . I don’t know what context you have in mind, but I’m thinking of the scenario where (for example) a school pupil is asked what he/she would like to be when he/she grows up. The answer in this case isn’t binding in any way, and I think it’s perfectly legitimate for someone in this situation to state the reason “because I like helping people”.
Here we have the same opinion. I think this construction would be fine, too.
Where am I going wrong?
berndf
presenter
You don’t take a career decision unless your “liking to help people” is going to last, do you.
I agree, in English this sounds right; and, as Sokol wrote, it is even possible in some German dialects. But in standard German it simply triggers the wrong connotation. “Mögen” can have a range of meanings, from a giving entertaining or pleasant sensation to a being a true desire. In the construction ich mag es, zu the meaning locks in towards the former while ich möchte can still mean the latter as well (I guess because the use of Konjunktiv II hints an euphemistic use).
Let me give you two sentence; in the former I like it is idiomatic in the latter not: I like playing tricks on people. I like to help people. Are we getting closer?
ABBA Stanza
senior member
Maybe, but I’m getting conflicting information when searching around on the web, where I’ve been finding plenty of sentences like this (to quote one particular example):
The notary at Notariat Messkirch loves her profession: “The work challenges me and I like to help other people with legal questions”.
The rest requires a bit more thinking.
In the meantime, thanks for the answer, Bernd.
berndf
presenter
robocop
senior member
As for the meaning, you are right. Strictly speaking, the sentence could have either meaning. But native speakers will avoid this ambiguity by using a different wording. In other words, the sentence is not idiomatic (though correct and meaningful).
– I like going out to eat. (generalized statement) = I love to go out to eat (to eat abroad/to go out to eat). I like to eat out. “I like to eat out” is principally correct here but not very idiomatic.
– I fancy going out to eat. (statement of the moment) = I want to eat [now] [out]. I like to eat out now.
Uses of “I like”: I don’t like now (I don’t feel like it right now). I don’t like to repeat everything all the time (I’m tired of it. ). I like beans (I love beans). I like Lucy (I like Lucy. I love Lucy). I like your laughter (I love your laughter). I like beat/cinema/skiing (I love . ).
I like beer (I love beer). I want a beer (I would like a beer [now]). .
ABBA Stanza
senior member
Aha! So “I like to help people “can be idiomatic after all, given the right context.
I think I understand what you’re saying now. But note that, even in English, the reasoning “because I like helping people” does not convey any degree of commitment. It’s also rather a negative reason, because the logic here is based on the fact that, if one didn’t like helping people, one would be unlikely to be suited to becoming a doctor. Whether the converse is true is another matter, so this argument would come across as being very “thin” if presented at an interview at a school of medicine, for example.
Cultural differences probably play a role here, too, because interests and hobbies traditionally play a notoriously lowly role in German-speaking countries, where they are (from a career point-of-view) practically worthless and where formal qualifications are everything. In contrast, in Britain and (to an even greater extent) America, (almost) everything is traditionally possible and millions of people have obtained jobs based on hobbies alone. These differences will no doubt be well-known to everyone reading this, but I’m mentioning them because they may account for why the native speakers here consider “weil ich es mag, Leuten zu helfen” too frivolous in this context, whereas the English translation “because I like helping people” seems fine.
Yes, it does sound a bit weird on its own. I guess it’s more likely to crop up in a list of interests (e.g., “Ich mag Fahrrad fahren, Briefe schreiben, essen gehen, tanzen, u.v.m.”).
Good point. On the other hand, the question”Magst du jetzt essen gehen?” would be fine, I presume?
(By the way, why are you stressing the word “auswärts”? I thought that was inherent in the concept of “essen gehen”. )