“Here clearly responsible persons must be named”

In March, the presentation of the results of a large-scale study on abuse cases in the Archdiocese of Cologne was canceled at short notice. Oliver Vogt, expert for prevention and reappraisal, continues to hope for publication.

Interviewer: How did you personally take that in March this press conference was canceled so shortly before and the results of the chancery have not been published until today yes?

Oliver Vogt (until the end of October head of the Institute for Prevention and Reappraisal (IPA) of Sexualized Violence, former abuse commissioner in the Archdiocese of Cologne): I regretted this very much, because I was very much in favor of this investigation and this study being carried out, because I believe that it is only possible with absolute transparency and clarity in the responsibilities. I can't evaluate the legal reasons that led to the cancellation. I am not a lawyer. I can only rely on the statements of the lawyers that it was apparently so serious that this publication was postponed.

I am still of the opinion that it is absolutely necessary that the names are mentioned, because that belongs to a comprehensive and clear reappraisal. It is useless to try to sweep things under the table. We are beyond this phase in the Catholic Church and in the Federal Republic of Germany. Here clearly responsible persons must be named.

Interviewer: That is, they go there quasi with Cardinal Woelki, who also says: All names belong here on the table?

Vogt: Absolutely.

Interviewer: In the media, a scapegoat was quickly identified after the cancellation of the interview. It was said that Archbishop Hebe of Hamburg was planning to take legal action against this publication. You have to know that he was responsible for personnel in the archdiocese of Cologne for a long time. What do you think is the truth of this matter?

Vogt: So to make a scapegoat, that is certainly much too short-sighted. Scapegoat is, in my opinion, not a good word at this point anyway. Of course, Archbishop Hebe has had responsibilities in the Archdiocese of Cologne. He said it himself in his interviews. He was involved in handling abuse cases. And of course he has a comprehensive knowledge. But he did not have that alone. Many other responsible people in the Archdiocese of Cologne have had the same reaction. The cases of abuse were never dealt with by one person alone, but many people were involved.

Archbishop Hebe himself said that he had always informed Cardinal Meisner, and other authorities were also involved. There was a personnel conference that discussed such cases. And with that, it's too easy to say, this is one person who has responsibility. Many of those responsible have known about cases and have to bear the corresponding responsibility.

Interviewer: Now there was an interview with Archbishop Hebe last week. He says that there were many clergymen sitting on these committees at that time who had been present during the discussions of the abuse cases. How do you evaluate this interview?

Vogt: So I think that Archbishop Hebe is of course under a certain prere here. He is accused here presumably, I know the report just as little as all the others, and tries to defend himself. Many people in this diocese knew about the cases of abuse. The cases of abuse did not only become known in 2010, but they were known much longer in the past. And they were not handled by one person alone. Therefore, it is a reaction that he naturally tries to defend himself at this point.

But I think the defense is one thing. I would like to see people who were involved in this simply take responsibility at some point and clearly say: Yes, that's how it was.

Interviewer: A very big problem is the ie of the gaps in the files. In the Archdiocese of Cologne, there was a rule that files relating to abuse were shredded after a certain period of time. Does that mean that it will never come out who was responsible for the cover-up in the archdiocese??

Vogt: First of all, it has to be said that this shredding of files sounds very dramatic at first. In principle, it is prescribed in canon law. Whether it was clever to destroy files on abuse cases. That is the completely different question. I think it is wrong, but it has happened, and of course certain things have been destroyed forever with it.

Nevertheless, there is an extensive file, which has also been handed over to the Munich law firm, which very well allows cases to be reconstructed. Whether these are all cases? That will probably never come out, because we don't know what was destroyed and when what was destroyed. I can only ever rely on the statements I heard at the time that no files have been destroyed since 2010.

Interviewer: What do you think will happen next with this ie in Cologne?

Vogt: I really cannot assess it. I am no longer active in the archdiocese of Cologne. At the moment, in my estimation, it is a legal battle on many levels. I wish very much that it comes to a result, that it comes to a publication, because the victims of abuse wait for it. We owe it to the people who have experienced abuse by clerics of the Catholic Church in the Archdiocese of Cologne that those responsible are also named here. And I wish that it does not come to an eternally long legal tug-of-war, but that here also times the facts are put on the table.

The interview was conducted by Verena Troster.

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