“Superiors look the other way, cover up, transfer people”

Hans Zollner, President of the Center for Child Protection and Vice-Rector of the Pontifical Gregorian University © Francesco Pistilli (CBA)

CBA: The Child Protection Center CCP at the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome will be expanded into a larger "Institute of Anthropology – Interdisciplinary Studies on Human Dignity and Care for Vulnerable Persons" (IADC). Father Zollner, what are the substantive reasons for expanding the CCP??

Father Hans Zollner SJ (Director of the Center for Child Protection CCP of the Pontifical Gregorian University): Many. Take, since 2017, the "#MeToo movement," the McCarrick case, which brought into focus the systemic reasons for abuse, even of adult dependents; the Pope's decree "Vos estis lux mundi" on the accountability of church superiors; the abuse of women religious, the talk of spiritual abuse and that of power. This has broadened my and our horizon of reflection: a purely legal reappraisal is not enough; systemic consequences are needed. In the context, there is also a need to clarify what exactly is a "vulnerable" or "person in need of protection". For this, there is no internationally generally accepted legal catch-all.

CBA: Why is it so hard to confront the ie?

Zollner: The subject of sexual abuse is so unpleasant, so repulsive, that no one wants to deal with it. As humanity, we find it so difficult because it makes us aware of our inhumanity. Our defensive reaction, which is quite automatic and which can be proven a hundred times – not only in the ecclesiastical sphere – has to do with the fact that sexual violence has always existed; but that it is taboo. Sexuality is beautiful and life-giving; and yet through it can also be expressed a particular kind of humiliation, of destructiveness.
CBA: Has there been the most progress in raising awareness about abuse in the Catholic Church so far? Or are others more advanced?
Zollner: It is not possible to say exactly. But there is probably no other institution in the world that has necessarily had to deal with this ie in this way. In the area of prevention, the church has undoubtedly developed further; this is also confirmed by government agencies. In coming to terms with it, however, we are still not sufficiently facing up to what should be happening: considering not only the legal implications, but also the moral, spiritual and structural implications.

In other institutions, the ie appears and disappears again. About the UN, one reads reports from time to time that UN personnel have their aid services paid for by sex. There is still a lot to uncover. Whether Oxfam or UN blue helmets – it is apparently one to one the same processes as in the church: the superiors look away, cover up, transfer people – only so that supposedly nothing falls back on the institution.

CBA: What does it look like in sports?
Zollner: I hear that there is a report at the Ministry of the Interior in Berlin on abuse in the youth sector of sports in Germany. It has not been published yet. Why? Because it would most likely discourage many parents from sending their children to sports clubs.
CBA: Other religious communities?
Zollner: Take Germany: The Catholic Church has rightly been in the media spotlight for a long time; the Protestant Church has been riding in its slipstream for many years. Most recently, it came into focus. Then came the disputes over Cologne and Hamburg, and now the Protestant Church has more or less disappeared again. For victims in Protestant churches, it's hard to bear.
CBA: In the institutions mentioned, the subject of abuse is not addressed as consistently as in the Catholic Church?
Zollner: Well, it can be read that, for example, the numbers of cases and the amount of claims in the Boy Scouts in the USA far exceed those of the Catholic Church. There may be individual associations; people who push that. But structurally little changes. Who in Germany, for example, is looking closely at which people can become soccer coaches?
CBA: Is soccer particularly affected?
Zollner: Soccer, swimming, judo, boxing – all have been in the news in recent months. But if today you can only recruit a youth soccer coach if he has to present a police clearance certificate …
CBA: … a lot of things break down?
Zollner: Just. Who then says: "You distrust me? Then I do not come." And there is a fear of this.
CBA: Do you know how the numbers of children's and youth group leaders are developing in the Catholic Church? They have to do appropriate training and present certificates.
Zollner: I don't have any figures for Germany, especially since it won't be possible to collect them until the pandemic is over. So far, there hasn't seemed to be a big drop-off in altar boys, for example.
CBA: Does the CCP or. then IADC efforts to join forces with like-minded people from, say, the world of sports or others?
Zollner: I am in contact with a professor at Harvard. This will come to Rome in June; we are planning a larger event for 2022 with participants from a wide variety of areas. We collaborate with renowned partners on research projects. There will be a lot of things to come.
CBA: Who will finance the future expanded IADC?
Zollner: So far, the center has been funded primarily by church grants, led by the Archdiocese of Munich-Freising and Cardinal Marx himself. Then we now have chair funding from the Rottenburg-Stuttgart diocese. Other dioceses give smaller amounts plus private funding. In addition, we receive funds from the Kindermissionswerk, which finances a position. As we expand, we hope for more supporters of our work.
CBA: Recently the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Children met again – hybrid. What is there to report from there?
Zollner: There were three of us in Rome, all the others connected – also the president and the outgoing secretary from Boston. We had two plenary sessions and working group meetings. Not much has happened because of the pandemic either.

CBA: No result?

Zollner: But, one thing we are preparing: In mid-September, a meeting of members of the Latin and Oriental Bishops' Conferences in Central and Eastern Europe on dealing with abuse. In the current Polish situation, this can cause a medium earthquake.
CBA: Is there resistance from their bishops' conference?
Zollner: The Bishops' Conference is a co-organizer. But of course there are very different positions among the bishops. The bishops will have to work this out among themselves. The chairman, Archbishop Stanislaw Gadecki, will give the opening address at the conference; and Poland's Primate, Archbishop Wojciech Polak of Gniezno, will give the closing remarks.
CBA: Is there a special topic?
Zollner: A more spiritual-theological approach is to be offered. But we also want to show that there are concrete positive examples in some of these countries – Croatia, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Poland. Not many, but there are; and they show that it is possible to make a good ecclesiastical commitment on this subject. In addition, last week it became public that the Ukrainian Catholic University in Lviv has established a child protection center in cooperation with the CCP.

The interview was conducted by Roland Juchem.